A Great Vaccine Debate On CNN

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In case you missed it, CNN hosted a fun debate last night (Thursday, January 29).1

Dr. Armand Dorian gets my vote for Man of the Year for calling out “Dr.” Jack Wolfson over his unscientific positions on vaccines and the current measles outbreak in California and 13 other states.  I’ve linked the video below.  Even though CNN sneaks in a 30 second commercial at the beginning, it’s well worth sitting through just to hear Dorian deliver the truth: it’s hard to believe that Wolfson has a medical license.  The man is literally doing harm to his patients.

cnn debate capture

Dorian and Wolfson debate. Click to launch video.

Dorian is a doctor and debunks Wolfson far better than I ever could, so please watch the video, linked here.  But I can’t resist commenting.  Some of Wolfson’s more ridiculous statements are that:

(1) We’re injecting chemicals in our children’s bodies (when we vaccinate).
Well, duh.  Our bodies are made up of chemicals.  Everything we eat and drink is a chemical.  Everything we see, touch, taste, and feel is a chemical.  Dr. Wolfson, here’s a beautiful online version of the periodic table of the elements.2  You should have studied this in grade school.  Chemicals!  Oh my God, they’re everywhere!

According to the CDC, measles is the leading cause of vaccine-preventable death in children.3  Doctors agree that’s a really good reason to inject those chemicals.  They’re saving lives.

(2) Measles results in “typically benign childhood conditions”
Death is not a benign condition.  The CDC says for every 1000 children who get measles, 1 or 2 will die.4  One out of every four who contract the disease will be hospitalized. There is no cure for measles. Getting the vaccine is safer than coming down with the disease. Measles can lead to swelling of the brain and severe respiratory problems.5  And, oh yeah… did I mention death?

(3) “Our children have the right to get infections”
The “right” to get infections?

Sometimes you encounter a statement that’s so utterly stupid there’s just no response.  I suppose our children have the right to die in car crashes, but I’d like to prevent that.

Speaking of car crashes…

(4) “Bad things can happen to anybody.  We can be in a car accident.”
When host Erin Burnett points out to Wolfson that unvaccinated people are in fact dying from measles, he responds with “Bad things can happen to anybody.  We can be in a car accident.”

Yes doctor.  And that’s why we wear seat belts.  There’s some good science behind the seat belt concept, just as there is behind the measles vaccine.  Before the vaccine was invented in the 1960s, there were up to four million cases of the disease in the USA each year, with an average of 48,000 hospitalizations.5  Thanks to the vaccine, measles was eliminated in this country by the year 2000.6  Now, thanks to anti-vaccination campaigns and quack doctors, measles is making a comeback.

(5) “They [our children] need to get appropriate chiropractic care.  Actual healthy doctors […]”
Chiropractors are not doctors.  They have no medical training.  There’s nothing about chiropractic training or care that remotely begins to address handling a virus, which is what causes the measles.

For this statement alone, I agree with Dorian: Wolfson should not be practicing medicine.  He’s violating the Hippocratic oath.

 

Image Credits
CNN screen snapshot is used in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, commonly known as “fair use law”. This material is distributed without profit with the intent to provide commentary, review, education, parody, and increase public health knowledge.

References
(1) Watch Doctors Have Heated Debate Over Vaccination
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/30/erin-panel-anti-vaccination-debate.cnn

(2) Periodic Table of the Elements
http://www.ptable.com/

(3) CDC Global Health – Measles, Rubella, and CRS
http://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/

(4) CDC: Measles: Make Sure Your Child Is Fully Immunized
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/Measles/

(5) CDC/American Academy of Pediatrics Bulletin
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/downloads/dis-measles-color-office.pdf

(6) CDC: Frequently Asked Questions about Measles in the U.S.
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html

40 thoughts on “A Great Vaccine Debate On CNN”

  1. It’s a shame that most of these on air “debates” are limited to just a few sound bites. The pessimistic side of me is thinking that the only thing the anti-vaxxers heard was “injecting chemicals” and will go on with their ignorance in spite of the deadly risk. Nevertheless, it’s always nice to have a voice of reason on TV.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply ↓

    • Respond to this ignorance:
      Aluminum hydroxide injections lead to motor deficits and motorneuron degeneration
      Christopher A. Shaw a,b,c,*, Michael S. Petrik

      Aluminum adjuvant linked to Gulf War illness induces motor neuron death in mice, M.S. Petrik, et al, Neuromolecular Medicine, 2007, Vol. 1, No. 9, pp. 83-100.

      Vaccines and Disease: An Investigative Report by Roman Bystrianyk http://www.whale.to/a/bystrianyk3.html

      Vaccination: A Mythical History ~ by Roman Bystrianyk and Suzanne Humphries MD – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/08/27/vaccination-a-mythical-history-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.IiWtYGpe.dpuf

      Aluminum neurotoxicity in preterm infants receiving intravenous-feeding solutions.
      Bishop N.J. – Morley R. – Day J.P. – Lucas A.
      From: N Engl J Med (1997 May 29) 336(22):1557-61

      Persistent subcutaneous nodules in patients hyposensitized with aluminum-containing allergen extracts.
      Garcia-Patos V. – Pujol R.M. – Alomar A. – Cistero A. – Curell R. – Fernandez-Figueras M.T. – de Moragas J.M.
      From: Arch Dermatol (1995 Dec) 131(12):1421-4

      Aspects of aluminum toxicity.
      Hewitt C.D. – Savory J. – Wills M.R.
      From: Clin Lab Med (1990 Jun) 10(2):403-22

      Check this out:
      “Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award”
      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

      On Novermber 9, 2007, the US Court (DVIC) determined:

      “In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).”

      Find this here:
      http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/751/9/

      MMR: A mother’s victory. The vast majority of doctors say there is no link between the triple jab and autism, but could an Italian court case reignite this controversial debate? By Sue Reid – Daily Mail15 June 2012
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160054/MMR-A-mothers-victory-The-vast-majority-doctors-say-link-triple-jab-autism-Italian-court-case-reignite-controversial-debate.html

      Here is a list of 28 studies from around the world that support Dr. Wakefield’s “debunked” research:
      1. The Journal of Pediatrics November 1999; 135(5):559-63
      2. The Journal of Pediatrics 2000; 138(3): 366-372
      3. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003; 23(6): 504-517
      4. Journal of Neuroimmunology 2005
      5. Brain, Behavior and Immunity 1993; 7: 97-103
      6. Pediatric Neurology 2003; 28(4): 1-3
      7. Neuropsychobiology 2005; 51:77-85
      8. The Journal of Pediatrics May 2005;146(5):605-10
      9. Autism Insights 2009; 1: 1-11
      10. Canadian Journal of Gastroenterology February 2009; 23(2): 95-98
      11. Annals of Clinical Psychiatry 2009:21(3): 148-161
      12. Journal of Child Neurology June 29, 2009; 000:1-6
      13. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders March 2009;39(3):405-13
      14. Medical Hypotheses August 1998;51:133-144.
      15. Journal of Child Neurology July 2000; ;15(7):429-35
      16. Lancet. 1972;2:883–884.
      17. Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia January-March 1971;1:48-62
      18. Journal of Pediatrics March 2001;138:366-372.
      19. Molecular Psychiatry 2002;7:375-382.
      20. American Journal of Gastroenterolgy April 2004;598-605.
      21. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003;23:504-517.
      22. Neuroimmunology April 2006;173(1-2):126-34.
      23. Prog. Neuropsychopharmacol Biol. Psychiatry December 30 2006;30:1472-1477.
      24. Clinical Infectious Diseases September 1 2002;35(Suppl 1):S6-S16
      25. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 2004;70(11):6459-6465
      26. Journal of Medical Microbiology October 2005;54:987-991
      27. Archivos venezolanos de puericultura y pediatría 2006; Vol 69 (1): 19-25.
      28. Gastroenterology. 2005:128 (Suppl 2);Abstract

      Aluminum is classified as a poison by many governments including the US. These are research papers not websites so refrain from ad hominem attacks about cutting and pasting, and refute with peer reviewed research.

      Like

      Reply ↓

      • OK… I’m going to need a few minutes 😉 In the meantime, I’ll just leave you with the scientific fact that aluminum is the most common metal in the earth’s crust and cannot be avoided under any circumstances. It’s in the air you breathe, the water you drink, and the food you eat. Spinach and tea in particular are rich in aluminum. I mention these because they’re often pushed as super foods by the woo crowd. Unless you have a problem such as kidney disease, your body is efficient at removing aluminum–it evolved that way. Humans couldn’t have made it on an aluminum rich planet in any other circumstances. The amount of aluminum you receive in an injection is so infinitesimally small compared to what you ingest as a normal part of your diet that it’s laughable to worry about vaccines. I speak not as an expert chemist or doctor, but one who’s already read some of the debunked studies you’ve presented and then gone on to read peer-reviewed science and sources such as the World Health Organization. They’ve got some great fact sheets on aluminum. If I’m going to read all of your papers, can I please ask that you return the favor and at least read the following paper, which I predict will effectively debunk most of what you’ve posted here? Thanks:

        Click to access aluminium.pdf

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply ↓

        • Scientific views are not debunked in TV debates and blog posts. They are debunked by a more thorough scientific research. I came to this site in search of data refuting Dr. Petrik’s study re aluminum. Have you taken your few minutes to revew the articles above?

          I’ve heard the argument that aluminum is abundant. But I’ve also heard that it is absorbed differently when injected than when it is digested. Digested aluminum is excreted, injected aluminum gets into the bloodstream and gets into brain tissue. Can you comment on this?

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X17308763#tbl0005

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          • Route of administration (oral, IV) is indeed important according to the doctors, nurses, and pharmacists who have mentored me, but no, you do not get a free pass on pooping/peeing out your aluminum just because you’ve ingested it rather than injected it.

            If your kidneys are functioning normally you’ve got nothing to fear from what you ingest in your diet, but some still gets through and collects, if memory serves, in your bones, while the amounts present in vaccines are so much smaller than even that that they’re statistically insignificant. This isn’t me talking–it’s the aforementioned health care professionals and scientists published by orgs such as the World Health Organization. I have links to supporting literature on my–sorry, yes it’s one of the blogs you disparage–if you Google “aluminum” and “vaccines”.

            Bad science is/can be debunked in myriad ways, so while I understand the intent of your opening statement, given that the Web and social media are responsible for spreading so much misinformation, I think they’re absolutely perfect platforms for debunking.

            Thanks for reading and commenting.

            Like

      • Mark Aaron Alsip: I read the paper you referenced, but I don’t believe you read it thoroughly. It is hardly a debunking. It is an apologist paper for industrial polluters, and WHO propaganda. Actually the papers author alludes to Al toxicity here:

        “on theother hand, aluminium hydroxide at a dose of 133 mg of aluminium per kg of body weight per day administered with citric acid produced maternal and fetal toxicity in rats (Gomez etal., 1991). Aluminium hydroxide (57 mg of aluminium per kg of body weight) given with lactic acid (570 mg/kg of body weight) to mice by gavage was not toxic, but aluminium lactate (57 mg of aluminium per kg of body weight) produced developmental toxicity,
        including poor ossification, skeletal variations, and cleft palate (Colomina et al., 1992).”

        And the paper alludes to Neurotoxicity here:

        “Behavioural impairment has been reported in laboratory animals exposed to solublealuminium salts (e.g. lactate, chloride) in the diet or drinking-water in the absence of overt encephalopathy or neurohistopathology. Both rats (Commissaris et al., 1982; Thorne et al.,1987; Connor et al., 1988) and mice (Yen-Koo, 1992) have demonstrated such impairments a doses exceeding 200 mg of aluminium per kg of body weight per day. Although significant alterations in acquisition and retention of learned behaviour were documented, the possible role of organ damage (kidney, liver, immunological) due to aluminium was incompletely
        evaluated in these studies (WHO, 1997).”

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        • I read the paper very thoroughly, and am saddened that your best response is to label all scientific research with which you disagree “an apologist paper for industrial polluters [and] propaganda.” Let’s see… which logical fallacy is that? 🙂

          As the paper clearly points out, and you do not dispute, aluminum in our diets is unavoidable.

          You also do not dispute that except in the case of kidney disease, the human body is quite efficient at removing aluminum in the normal doses in which we encounter it in the environment. Or do you disagree with this?

          I’d be happy to grant the fact that if you ingested enough aluminum it would be toxic… as would be the case for ingesting too much water. The dose does make the poison. If that wasn’t true, you’d be dead from the food you eat and the water you drink. You couldn’t avoid it.

          Your turn.

          Liked by 3 people

          Reply ↓

    • Al is a trace mineral, a micro-nutrient. The body is only prepared to use it in small amounts for metabolic or enzymatic reactions. The true roles of most trace minerals in the body are not fully understood, as researchers are finding more and more of the periodic chart involved in our physiology. But I can’t emphasize enough, the body only uses trace amounts. Why press the kidneys unnecessarily because they can handle it? Especially if the accumulative effect will cause inflammation leading to organ failure.

      Secondly, I don’t believe you fully understand the role of an adjuvant. It is an accelerant. Most peoples immune systems are compromised, due to poor diet stress, lack of sleep, etc., to the point that they don’t have a sufficient response to the antigen in the vaccine. The adjuvant triggers a heightened response by the immune system to get an appropriate level of antibody production. In effect it has to be toxic to illicit this response. I gather from Dr. Ugen’s and your arguments that your position is that Al(OH)3 and AlPO4 merely behave as toxins but they are not really toxic.

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  2. I was happy that the debate was so decidedly in favor of science but I have to agree with you–I think that all the anti-vaxxers heard was Wolfson’s dangerous nonsense. There have been far too many people praising him on social media today. I’m shocked that a doctor can hold a license after saying some of the things he said.

    Like

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    • Uhm. I just read your …debate with kagemni up there. Tell me what do you think about this: Is it because names for metals and chemical compounds aren’t made with “normal” language but scientific names that so many people do not understand what they really are and do? In my language if somebody said ” aluminum is poison” he would probably look stupider than here. One more thing, I’m not from the US, and have been reading about this antivax movement and anti science in general. Can you offer me an insight on how bad the state of anti science actually is in the US? About how many percent?

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply ↓

      • Science education here in the USA is lagging and I believe it makes people targets for pseudoscientific arguments. The “debate” with the vaccine denier above is sadly typical. it seems that the more you point out the facts (e.g. The amounts of aluminum you’re getting naturally and in vaccines aren’t harmong you), the more it reinforces their beliefs.

        Sorry I did not reply sooner. There was a flurry of comments and I missed this one.

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  3. As a PhD immunologist and vaccine researcher I am appalled by the comments of this so called board certified cardiologist. He is causing potential harm by perhaps modifying some public opinion on this topic and bring others in the anti-vaccine fold since the lay public perceives him as an expert because of his medical degree, which perhaps should be rescinded! Also, from what he stated he must not have done very well in (or perhaps skipped!!?) microbiology and immunology in medical school! Unfortunately, he like the other Hollywood celebrity “experts” on this topic will never change and continue to spew this nonsense.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply ↓

    • With only two years as a pre-Med student behind me Kenneth, I had enough education in micro and the immune system to debunk the cardiologist and I was screaming at the tv in frustration. I can only begin to imagine what a trained professional such as yourself was thinking. Even though Dorian did a great job at debunking this quack, I’m afraid you’re right: not much will change as a result. 😦

      Like

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      • I’m not a doctor but I believe I can point you to the information you’re looking for. Below is a link that seems to answer your question, which I think is a good one. The answer seems to be that Hep B is very dangerous and the risk is high, so the idea is getting the little critters vaccinated as soon as possible. Please check out the CDC information and see what you think:

        http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hepb/fs-parents.html

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      • Good question. The rationale is that that the development of chronic hepatitis disease from hepatitis B (hepB) infection is linked to perinatal (around time of birth) and postnatal (shortly after birth) transmission from infected mothers getting babies their first vaccination within 24 hours of birth is important. HepB infections in newborns are very serious. This is more important in areas where their may be a high incidence of mothers with infection, not so relevant in US where vaccine is highly used. Also it is argued that a newborns immune system is immature and wont make major immune responses nonetheless it is still given then. Also it should be pointed out that the hepB vaccine is inactivated so it is not a weakened form of the virus so it is a very safe vaccine. Hope this helps. The CDC website as well is a good place to look.

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply ↓

    • Refute this nonsense:
      Aluminum hydroxide injections lead to motor deficits and motorneuron degeneration
      Christopher A. Shaw a,b,c,*, Michael S. Petrik

      Aluminum adjuvant linked to Gulf War illness induces motor neuron death in mice, M.S. Petrik, et al, Neuromolecular Medicine, 2007, Vol. 1, No. 9, pp. 83-100.

      Vaccines and Disease: An Investigative Report by Roman Bystrianyk http://www.whale.to/a/bystrianyk3.html

      Vaccination: A Mythical History ~ by Roman Bystrianyk and Suzanne Humphries MD – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/08/27/vaccination-a-mythical-history-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.IiWtYGpe.dpuf

      Aluminum neurotoxicity in preterm infants receiving intravenous-feeding solutions.
      Bishop N.J. – Morley R. – Day J.P. – Lucas A.
      From: N Engl J Med (1997 May 29) 336(22):1557-61

      Persistent subcutaneous nodules in patients hyposensitized with aluminum-containing allergen extracts.
      Garcia-Patos V. – Pujol R.M. – Alomar A. – Cistero A. – Curell R. – Fernandez-Figueras M.T. – de Moragas J.M.
      From: Arch Dermatol (1995 Dec) 131(12):1421-4

      Aspects of aluminum toxicity.
      Hewitt C.D. – Savory J. – Wills M.R.
      From: Clin Lab Med (1990 Jun) 10(2):403-22

      Check this out:
      “Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award”
      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

      On Novermber 9, 2007, the US Court (DVIC) determined:

      “In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).”

      Find this here:
      http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/751/9/

      MMR: A mother’s victory. The vast majority of doctors say there is no link between the triple jab and autism, but could an Italian court case reignite this controversial debate? By Sue Reid – Daily Mail15 June 2012
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160054/MMR-A-mothers-victory-The-vast-majority-doctors-say-link-triple-jab-autism-Italian-court-case-reignite-controversial-debate.html

      Here is a list of 28 studies from around the world that support Dr. Wakefield’s “debunked” research:
      1. The Journal of Pediatrics November 1999; 135(5):559-63
      2. The Journal of Pediatrics 2000; 138(3): 366-372
      3. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003; 23(6): 504-517
      4. Journal of Neuroimmunology 2005
      5. Brain, Behavior and Immunity 1993; 7: 97-103
      6. Pediatric Neurology 2003; 28(4): 1-3
      7. Neuropsychobiology 2005; 51:77-85
      8. The Journal of Pediatrics May 2005;146(5):605-10
      9. Autism Insights 2009; 1: 1-11
      10. Canadian Journal of Gastroenterology February 2009; 23(2): 95-98
      11. Annals of Clinical Psychiatry 2009:21(3): 148-161
      12. Journal of Child Neurology June 29, 2009; 000:1-6
      13. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders March 2009;39(3):405-13
      14. Medical Hypotheses August 1998;51:133-144.
      15. Journal of Child Neurology July 2000; ;15(7):429-35
      16. Lancet. 1972;2:883–884.
      17. Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia January-March 1971;1:48-62
      18. Journal of Pediatrics March 2001;138:366-372.
      19. Molecular Psychiatry 2002;7:375-382.
      20. American Journal of Gastroenterolgy April 2004;598-605.
      21. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003;23:504-517.
      22. Neuroimmunology April 2006;173(1-2):126-34.
      23. Prog. Neuropsychopharmacol Biol. Psychiatry December 30 2006;30:1472-1477.
      24. Clinical Infectious Diseases September 1 2002;35(Suppl 1):S6-S16
      25. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 2004;70(11):6459-6465
      26. Journal of Medical Microbiology October 2005;54:987-991
      27. Archivos venezolanos de puericultura y pediatría 2006; Vol 69 (1): 19-25.
      28. Gastroenterology. 2005:128 (Suppl 2);Abstract

      Aluminum is classified as a poison by many governments including the US. These are research papers not websites so refrain from ad hominem attacks about cutting and pasting, and refute with peer reviewed research.

      Like

      Reply ↓

      • OK… I’m going to need a few minutes 😉 In the meantime, I’ll just leave you with the scientific fact that aluminum is the most common metal in the earth’s crust and cannot be avoided under any circumstances. It’s in the air you breathe, the water you drink, and the food you eat. Spinach and tea in particular are rich in aluminum. I mention these because they’re often pushed as super foods by the woo crowd. Unless you have a problem such as kidney disease, your body is efficient at removing aluminum–it evolved that way. Humans couldn’t have made it on an aluminum rich planet in any other circumstances. The amount of aluminum you receive in an injection is so infinitesimally small compared to what you ingest as a normal part of your diet that it’s laughable to worry about vaccines. I speak not as an expert chemist or doctor, but one who’s already read some of the debunked studies you’ve presented and then gone on to read peer-reviewed science and sources such as the World Health Organization. They’ve got some great fact sheets on aluminum. If I’m going to read all of your papers, can I please ask that you return the favor and at least read the following paper, which I predict will effectively debunk most of what you’ve posted here? Thanks:

        Click to access aluminium.pdf

        Like

        Reply ↓

      • Aluminum salts as adjuvants (molecules that help vaccines induce immune responses) have the longest and largest safety track record of all “adjuvanted” vaccines with more than 3 billion vaccine doses used in the past 80 years with a positive risk benefit ratio and in 1999 the WHO organization deemed overall that its is safe. That is there are not on record billions of cases of autism and mental disorders induced by these vaccines! A couple things. Its easy to find in the scientific literature papers to support anything. As someone who reads the scientific literature as well as coauthored 150 papers I fully realize this. Toxicity studies can be, but not always misleading. Also not all vaccines contain aluminum and importantly most aluminum containing antacids like Maalox and Mylanta contain more aluminum than what is added to vaccines. One thing I should state is neither I nor other scientists and physicians are saying that there are never adverse reactions to vaccines and in some rare cases deaths. Vaccines are like any other drugs and have risks but in medicine the concept of the risk: benefit ratio drives the development and implementation of new therapies. I think that it is important to point out that risks of taking the worlds wonder drug aspirin (in terms of bleeding events) is much greater than the risk of vaccines and other drugs yet we still use aspirin. I realize that the “debate” between the scientific community and those who deny the effectiveness of vaccine will never resolved. But I should say to the real anti-vaccine “purists” like Wolfson (and I realize that not all anti-vaccine individuals fall in this category) that they should be completely pure and refuse all therapies, i.e. antibiotics (these chemicals come from bacteria after all!!), cancer chemotherapy etc. As well, don’t drink chlorinated water (chlorine must be toxic!). It might be better to get it directly from the river so children, in particular ,can build up immunity to the germs and parasites in the water, similar to Wolfsons statement that children would be better off getting measles to build up their immunity! This will be my last in depth extensive post to this blog. I need to get back to my work on developing new vaccines!!

        Liked by 2 people

        Reply ↓

      • Kenneth Ugen,PhD You did not specifically address the research. I don’t care about degrees. I only care about legitimate peer reviewed research. You just danced and generalized. Just because Al is in antacids and parmesean cheese that doesn’t make it any less toxic. I am not buying the “you can make the data say whatever you want” nonsense. That is dismissive and lazy. Besides that cuts both ways. There are countless papers on Al toxicity and they aren’t using manic amounts of it to prove a point. Anything above trace amounts, because it is a trace mineral & micro-nutrient, has been demonstrated to be a problem. I don’t care what common everyday thing it is found in, drinking water, antacids, etc. If you are popping antacids in your mouth like Tic Tacs you are going to have problems. Have you co-authored any papers refuting any of the research I listed. If your working for big pharna your are biased, and it is obvious by your vanilla response, especially if you are using WHO an authority which is not exactly free of the influence of big pharma’s money- along with the FDA.

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  4. Indeed! I remember reading a study showing that balanced arguments result in people of opposing predispositions becoming more divided (not less!). So i would not be surprised if anti-vaccine attitudes in those watching will only grow stronger. 😦

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply ↓

  6. I don’t think it’s fear of vaccinations. I believe it’s a disagreement on how many vaccines are given on a single visit. I have vaccinated all my children, but on a alternative schedule. I rather do 6 vaccines spread out over 3-6 months rather than in one visit. I am given so much grief by nurses and doctors. Also, I want to choose which vaccine company I want to use and when and how many under a pediatrician’s supervision rather than be mandated by the government. We all know that doctors benefit from which pharmaceutical company brand they push. I feel I have the right if I prefer a maker over another. These views should be respected.

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  8. Wolfson clearly won the debate. The TV doctor simply bullied him with continued responses of “I can’t believe you’re a doctor”. NEWFLASH, dipshiz’s…they all receive the same education!

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    • I never censor comments, even ones from fake URLs. But I do wish you’d explain how Wolfson “won” the debate. He avoided all of the statistics on death and disability from a preventable disease like measles by saying “bad things happen”. Wolfson apparently DOESN’T have the same education as Dorian. If he does, then cardiologists aren’t getting a thorough schooling on infectious diseases. I’m not willing to write off all cardiologists though. Except for a few fringe cases like Wolfson, doctors are in agreement: get vaccinated.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply ↓

  9. People who believe in this anti beaver aid actually scare me.

    Also so far Not 1 anti vaxxer had been able to answer a point I keep making to them…

    I’m the UK health care is free. Vaccines are free. We are not changed to get any of them. Doctors do not get money from pharmaceutical companies as the way we work over here the NHS makes the companies fight it out to prove who is the best and they lower their prices because they know they will get used for key much the whole country.

    In the US maybe, just maybe, doctors and pharmaceutical companies benefit from making people sick over their lives… But how does that work over here and in the myriad of other countries with systems similar to the NHS?

    IT’S FREE, So if someone is made sick by a vaccine and nail sick by them or what ever, it costs the NHS more money…. It doesn’t make them money. The NHS wants people to be healthy because that means they are cheaper… That’s why people get vaccinated as it’s cheaper than dealing with the illness.

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  10. BTW Mark.. your stupid argument about how aluminum being injected into our bodies is no different than the aluminum found organically in our food supply is…well very, very stupid.. again it’s all about isolated form vs. not.
    That WHO/FDA/Pharma hand must soothe you right up!

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